eddief 1 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Hi all,I recently started work building a brick barbecue. The concrete base turned out perfect, but I didn't get much further than that. I'm having a lot of trouble mixing good, easily workable mortar. The mix I tried is 6:2:1 (sand:lime:cement). Since I'm just getting started in laying bricks, I need to take my time adjusting the bricks into place. This seems impossible with the mortar I made. No matter how much water I put in it, the mortar dries fast and doesn't stick to the bricks (bricks that have been layed 24hrs ago can easily be removed by hand). What am I doing wrong? Link to post Share on other sites
Rich 2 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Hi EddieYour mix is too weak. What sand are you using too?You dont need lime either, its only a barbecue... Link to post Share on other sites
eddief 1 Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Doesn't lime slow the hardening of mortar? I don't know what you mean by what type of sand I'm using. It's pure fine grain sand. Link to post Share on other sites
Rich 2 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 There are lots of different types of sand to use, some for bricklaying, some for renderingetc etc.. Like I said, you dont need lime, your not building a house so its nothing really to worry about.Your problem is not how quickly the muck sets, but the fact that it doesnt hold anything together when it does.Ditch the lime and go with a 4-1 mix sand/cement. General building sand should be ok for this little job, nothing too fine. Link to post Share on other sites
verne 1 Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 just to add to diy guy's comments... a few drops of washing up liquid in the mix works as a poor man's plasticiser.mortar should never be stronger than the substrate you are working with... in other words when movement occurs due to changes in temperature or moisture the mortar should give a bit instead of cracking the brick, tile, etc., or simply becoming detached. 4:1 represents a strong mortar for best brick, again depending what sand is used (using a softer or finer sand tends to produce a stronger mortar but a more pleasing pointing). softer or weaker substrate would need a weaker ratio down to 7:1 for some jobs.it is still important that ordinary portland cement is fairly fresh and in good condition for best results... it is doubly important that mortar is allowed to "cure" rather than just dry out. consider bricks are very absorbant - like sponges - it is not surprising that in the old days brick piles were continuously soaked with a hose prior to being laid during dry spells to prevent this problem.i suspect this is the basis, or the majority of eddief's problem with his weak bonding mortar. Link to post Share on other sites
eddief 1 Posted July 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Thanks guys. I'm going at it again on saturday. I'll get back with the results. Link to post Share on other sites
eddief 1 Posted July 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 The "plasticiser" works as a charm. I hosed the bricks down the night before laying them. Everything went more-or-less smoothly. How long does it take for the mortar to cure? I need to lift the work top (a nearly 200kg concrete slab) on top of the brick walls. Thanks again. You were wery helpful. Link to post Share on other sites
verne 1 Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 that is quite a work top but don't forget to use a chopping board with that eddief - if you want to keep an edge on your knives!most of the stuff i have done has gone hard overnight. sometimes if the cement hasn't been very fresh it has taken a couple or three... a bloke i used to know who was in that trade referred to mortar as either "green", "a bit green" or "not green". there is a colour change that takes place and it is easy to see when it stops being "green" but quite when it becomes load bearing...? for most non-engineering stuff i guess its a matter of experience.my favourite building book was written between the wars... it says a conciensious builder should bare his arm and plunge it into ordinary portland cement dust as far as it will go and not accept delivery of any that does not feel warm...i can't repeat here what my local builder's merchant said when i told him what my book said... it went on to say that mortar keeps increasing in strength for many months!i guess if it looks and feels right and you can lower the top on rather than dragging it into position then you can go ahead when you have the manpower and the energy to chuck nearly a quarter of a ton of concrete around...happy eating. Link to post Share on other sites
eddief 1 Posted July 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I've uploaded a few pics for you to criticise my work. Bare in mind this is my first masonry adventure. Link to post Share on other sites
Rich 2 Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Hey EddieNot a bad first attempt, just a little work on the pointing and the muck mix and you will be all set. (pun pun)Seriously though, will this all be visible permanently or will it be hidden?I would seriously advise though that its well worth practicing, even consider pulling it down carefully and having another bash at it...Put the muck on the bricks at 45 degree angles, scraping the muck onto the 4 edges of the bricks side (1 side only) so that you can gently place the brick down onto the muck bed laid out, and tap it into place until the muck is not quite "ozzing" out of the joins, then, take a length of hosepipe and run it along the joins to give a nice even finish, and then brush down the joins with a hand-brush, that way you shouldnt even get any muck on the faces of the bricks at all.If the mortar wont stick to the side of a brick when held in mid air then its too wet or too dry, your muck should look almost olive green'ish when wet.Shame you dont live in Croydon, I'd come over and help you myself I learnt muck making and pointing years ago at building college when training to be a roofer, and it sure is something that is a fairly east once you get it right only once..What trowels are you using to lay your muck down?When I built my garden wall, I used a 3:1 mix of building sand which stuck beautifully, dried a nice colour and was nice and easy to point as it dried slowly enough to put down an entire 4 metre course at a snails pace... Link to post Share on other sites
eddief 1 Posted July 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Seriously though, will this all be visible permanently or will it be hidden?I haven't decided yet. I'll try to do something with the joints now that the mortar has dried. If the result pleases me I'll leave it at that.I would seriously advise though that its well worth practicing, even consider pulling it down carefully and having another bash at it...You must be joking. What trowels are you using to lay your muck down?You're talking to a computer programmer. I know my IFs and WHILEs quite well. I can't say the same about trowels. Link to post Share on other sites
Rich 2 Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Hi EddieWell, as long as your using some sort of trowels at least?I actually wasnt kidding about pulling it down through, you wont be able to do anything with the muck once it has set, except scrape bits off, but that will leave staining and possibly damage the bricks.Oh, and dont underestimate yourself too, I repair computers and laptops, build and maintain websites and run a national UK web hosting company, but was still able to build a wall, so dont knock your own ability, you can easily knock up a barbecue, but as with all things, a little practice is required..The entire point of doing something yourself is also about the enjoyment :-) Link to post Share on other sites
verne 1 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 hi eddie, your first effort looks fairly straight at least. i think the word that best describes it is "rustic" and there is nothing wrong with that in a lot of gardens and as it matures and grows the odd bit of moss and other verdigri and becomes a little sooty and fireworn it will start to disappear into the scenery. true, the lack of good pointing will make weather damage more likely... around 35 years ago i was lucky to be able to learn a little about this sort of thing from a local stonemason under a labour exchange scheme where people with no money swopped skills... my brother-in-law is a good all-rounder in the building trade, though has little patience with diyer's like me and my father was a good practical man who never allowed a lack of knowledge hold him back; he read and asked questions and puzzled things out to suit his needs. it helps when you enjoy a hobby like this but good diy usually begins with necessity. like a child learning to eat - small tools are mastered more easily at first and i suggest you use only a sizeable pointing trowel for jobs like this. available in a variety of sizes from the tiny decorator's trowel to ginormous and comes with a choice of radiused tip or pointed. i favour the pointed tip because i favour the less decorative weatherpointing as it sheds water a bit more efficiently. am not sure where diy guy hails from but around here muck comes from stables and mortar is called either mortar or compo. incidentally, there is something on the market called "bricky's mate" or some similar name which is intended to help diyer's produce consistent brickwork... enjoy yourself and if all else fails my stonemason friend had a couple of dodges to help new work blend with old quickly - painting with sour milk encourages the growth of verdigri and for a really quick fix water down a nice fresh cowpat and slosh it around... Link to post Share on other sites
eddief 1 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Hi guys,Last sunday, with a little help from friends and neighbours, I muscled the work top into place. I'm looking forward to the next weekend and bulding the top part. I'll try to pay more attention to pointing. Link to post Share on other sites
verne 1 Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 i am looking forward to your next installment eddie. your photo takes me back as it is reminicent of the bus shelter in my home village - different size of course! Link to post Share on other sites
eddief 1 Posted August 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Hello again,Here are the latest developments in a few pictures. The metal grill is also my handiwork. Link to post Share on other sites
Rich 2 Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 WOW, its hard to believe this was done by the same person....Did you really do this? What happened to the pointing on the inside? Link to post Share on other sites
eddief 1 Posted August 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Did you really do this?Yes, I did that. There's no point in cheating by having someone else to do the job. This is learning the hard way.What happened to the pointing on the inside?The bricks I was working with were terrible. When the gap between the outside edges is about 1cm and the bricks are laying flat, the inside edges almost touch. So I gave up pointing on the inside. Link to post Share on other sites
stuart45 1 Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 That's a really good job for your first attempt. You can see a great improvement on the top piece. When you lay bricks, don't worry about trying to get them level across the wall, just make sure that the face is plumb and the top edge is laid to the line or to the level. Bricks are not normally a perfect shape so it's not possible to get every face right. Link to post Share on other sites
eddief 1 Posted August 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 That's a really good job for your first attempt. You can see a great improvement on the top piece.Thanks Stuart. Link to post Share on other sites
eddief 1 Posted August 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 The roof is on. Now for some finishing touches and it's ready. Link to post Share on other sites
Rich 2 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Thats a great finish eddie, shame its not in the UK, otherwise we could all swing by for a barbecue Link to post Share on other sites
eddief 1 Posted August 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'll post a few steaks here so all of you can have a taste. Link to post Share on other sites
glahjbkzi 1 Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Hey nice BBQ it turned out well Link to post Share on other sites
eddief 1 Posted December 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Hi again,I'm finally delivering on my promise. Steaks, anyone? Link to post Share on other sites
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